[Us] Сбирка и дискусия относно съдбата на ГС инит Лаб

Vladimir Vassilev vloo at initlab.org
Wed Jul 25 18:51:09 EEST 2018


Да!

Vladimir Vassilev
root @ init Lab
+359 885 448475
http://initlab.org

2018-07-25 15:28 GMT+03:00 Венцислав Атанасов <user89 at gmail.com>:

> 19:30 в Кривото?
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 3:22 PM Vladimir Vassilev <vloo at initlab.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Ок, сбираме се на неформална среща тъз вечер, та да си говорим за Лаба :)
>> 7:30 остава началния час, пък който дойде по-рано, ще подгрява.
>>
>> Vladimir Vassilev
>> root @ init Lab
>> +359 885 448475
>> http://initlab.org
>>
>> 2018-07-25 10:57 GMT+03:00 Ivaylo Markov <ivo at schupen.net>:
>>
>>> Още един глас за ИББ.
>>>
>>> On 07/24/2018 04:14 PM, Vasil Kolev wrote:
>>>
>>> Аз съм повече за ИББ, щото там има ядене :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:53:57 +0300
>>> Mario Mishev <mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Аз съм ок и с двете, като предпочитам да е в Лаба.
>>>
>>> On 07/24/2018 11:15 AM, Vladimir Vassilev wrote:
>>>
>>> Очертава се да е утре срещата. Остава да решим дали на ИББ или в
>>> Лаба е по-добре. Мене ми е все тая, тъй че нека кажат останалите
>>> как се чувстват по въпроса. Дали е среща на УС или неформална
>>> дискусия - също не смятам, че има съществено значение в случая.
>>>
>>> Vladimir Vassilev
>>> root @ init Lab
>>> +359 885 448475http://initlab.org <http://initlab.org/> <http://initlab.org/>
>>>
>>> 2018-07-23 19:04 GMT+03:00 Венцислав Атанасов <user89 at gmail.com <mailto:user89 at gmail.com> <user89 at gmail.com>>:
>>>
>>>     Записах се в Дудъла. Може ли Петко да уточни дали ще присъства,
>>>     защото от коментарите и поведението му в IRC, разбирам че не е
>>>     заинтересован.
>>>
>>>     On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 6:01 PM Mario Mishev <mario at ludost.net
>>>     <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Добавих ги,
>>>
>>>         Ако някой иска още нещо да сложа/променя - казвайте
>>>
>>>
>>>         On 07/23/2018 05:50 PM, Mario Mishev wrote:
>>>         > Да добавя 24-27.07 от 19:30?
>>>         >
>>>         >
>>>         > On 07/23/2018 05:42 PM, Vladimir Vassilev wrote:
>>>         >> Ще ми е по-неудобно за вторник и сряда, ама ако не ви
>>>         устройват
>>>         >> четвъртък и петък, и на това бих се навил. Doodle update?
>>>         >>
>>>         >> Vladimir Vassilev
>>>         >> root @ init Lab
>>>         >> +359 885 448475
>>>         >> http://initlab.org <http://initlab.org/> <http://initlab.org/>
>>>         >>
>>>         >> 2018-07-23 17:36 GMT+03:00 Vasil Kolev
>>>         >> <vasil at ludost.net
>>>         <mailto:vasil at ludost.net> <vasil at ludost.net>
>>>         >> <mailto:vasil at ludost.net <vasil at ludost.net> <mailto:vasil at ludost.net> <vasil at ludost.net>>>:
>>>         >>
>>>         >>     Аз нямам проблем да пропусна ИББ и да го направим в
>>>         сряда от 19
>>>         >>     (вторник вечер имам една среща и вероятно няма да
>>>         >> имам
>>>         възможност).
>>>         >>     Останалите ОК ли сте със сряда (25.07)?
>>>         >>
>>>         >>     On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 17:03:47 +0300
>>>         >>     Mario Mishev <mario at ludost.net
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net> <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>>> wrote:
>>>         >>
>>>         >>     > Аз исках да е Съботно-Неделно за да не ни е
>>>         притеснено че времето
>>>         >>     > няма да ни стигне, освен това да сме свежи, защото
>>>         >> си представям че
>>>         >>     > след работа ще е по-трудно да се концентрираме,
>>>         >> иначе
>>>         нямам
>>>         >> против,
>>>         >>     > ако е по-удобно на всички, да го направим и през
>>>         седмицата.
>>>         >>     >
>>>         >>     >
>>>         >>     > On 07/23/2018 05:01 PM, Vladimir Vassilev wrote:
>>>         >>     > > Ок, благодаря, това изяснява малко контекста.
>>>         Остава питането ми
>>>         >>     > > дали би ви било удобно да направим срещата за
>>>         >> някой
>>>         от работните
>>>         >>     > > дни. Впрочем на 26 и 27 юли съм отпуска, та
>>>         вероятно ще съм край
>>>         >>     > > Лаба, когато не съм по нотариуси и други
>>>         >> глупости,
>>>         та тогава би
>>>         >>     > > било най-идеалното време за мен.
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >>     > > Vladimir Vassilev
>>>         >>     > > root @ init Lab
>>>         >>     > > +359 885 448475
>>>         >>     > > http://initlab.org <http://initlab.org/> <http://initlab.org/>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >>     > > 2018-07-23 16:52 GMT+03:00 Венцислав Атанасов
>>>         >>     <user89 at gmail.com <mailto:user89 at gmail.com> <user89 at gmail.com>
>>>         <mailto:user89 at gmail.com <user89 at gmail.com> <mailto:user89 at gmail.com> <user89 at gmail.com>>
>>>         >>     > > <mailto:user89 at gmail.com
>>>         > <user89 at gmail.com>> <mailto:user89 at gmail.com> <user89 at gmail.com>
>>>         <mailto:user89 at gmail.com <user89 at gmail.com> <mailto:user89 at gmail.com> <user89 at gmail.com>>>>:
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >>     > >     По-скоро че всички са заети (което е
>>>         >> нормално
>>>         де), отделя
>>>         >> се в
>>>         >>     > >     пъти по-малко време отколкото предишни
>>>         >> години,
>>>         пишат се
>>>         >>     някакви
>>>         >>     > >     issues които стоят нерешени с години, а може
>>>         >> да
>>>         са въпрос
>>>         >>     на 2-3
>>>         >>     > >     часа, най-много ден.
>>>         >>     > >     Също че цялото място е в будна кома, няма
>>>         достатъчно
>>>         >> членове,
>>>         >>     > > няма коуъркъри, плащат се едни наеми и
>>>         >> консумативи,
>>>         вътрим се с
>>>         >>     > > данък от фактури, които не ни издават. Малко
>>>         >> грубо
>>>         звучи
>>>         >>     погледнато
>>>         >>     > > по този начин, но не мисля че съм далеко от
>>>         >> реалността. > >     Идеята е да мислим варианти това да
>>>         >> се промени
>>>         в дългосрочен
>>>         >>     > > план. Ако не можем - има ли смисъл да се борим
>>>         >> с
>>>         неизбежното,
>>>         >>     или е
>>>         >>     > >     време да се откажем?
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >>     > >     On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 4:45 PM Mario Mishev
>>>         >>     <mario at ludost.net <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net> <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>>
>>>         >>     > >     <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net> <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>>>> wrote:
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >>     > >         В общи линии се започнаха разговори, че
>>>         никой нищо не
>>>         >>     прави
>>>         >>     > > в последно
>>>         >>     > >         време и Лаба се е превърнал в едно пусто
>>>         >> място. > >
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >>     > >         On 07/23/2018 04:41 PM, Vladimir
>>>         >> Vassilev
>>>         wrote:
>>>         >>     > >         > Впрочем някой ще обобщи ли какво се е
>>>         случвало
>>>         >> толкова в
>>>         >>     > >         > IRC?
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         > Vladimir Vassilev
>>>         >>     > >         > root @ init Lab
>>>         >>     > >         > +359 885 448475
>>>         >>     > >         > http://initlab.org
>>>         >> <http://initlab.org/> <http://initlab.org/> > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         > 2018-07-23 16:39 GMT+03:00 Венцислав
>>>         >> Атанасов > >         <user89 at gmail.com
>>>         > <user89 at gmail.com>> <mailto:user89 at gmail.com> <user89 at gmail.com>
>>>         <mailto:user89 at gmail.com <user89 at gmail.com> <mailto:user89 at gmail.com> <user89 at gmail.com>>
>>>         >>     <mailto:user89 at gmail.com <user89 at gmail.com> <mailto:user89 at gmail.com> <user89 at gmail.com>
>>>         <mailto:user89 at gmail.com <user89 at gmail.com> <mailto:user89 at gmail.com> <user89 at gmail.com>>>
>>>         >>     > >         > <mailto:user89 at gmail.com <user89 at gmail.com>
>>>         <mailto:user89 at gmail.com> <user89 at gmail.com> <mailto:user89 at gmail.com <user89 at gmail.com>
>>>         <mailto:user89 at gmail.com> <user89 at gmail.com>>
>>>         >>     <mailto:user89 at gmail.com <user89 at gmail.com> <mailto:user89 at gmail.com> <user89 at gmail.com>
>>>         <mailto:user89 at gmail.com <user89 at gmail.com> <mailto:user89 at gmail.com> <user89 at gmail.com>>>>>:
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >     Относно колко беше смислена
>>>         дискусията - ако
>>>         >> всички
>>>         >>     > >         знаем че има
>>>         >>     > >         >     проблем, и си мълчим и сме ок с
>>>         >> това
>>>         - няма да се
>>>         >>     > >         >поеме
>>>         >>     > >         инициатива
>>>         >>     > >         >     не само за решаване, а дори за
>>>         дискутиране. Затова
>>>         >>     > >         >мисля
>>>         >>     > >         че беше
>>>         >>     > >         >     нужно да се изкоментират тези
>>>         >> неща,
>>>         "да се сложат
>>>         >>     > >         >картите на масата" и да започнем, не
>>>         >> да
>>>         свикваме с
>>>         >>     това че
>>>         >>     > >         >има
>>>         >>     > >         проблем, а да
>>>         >>     > >         >     мислим как да го решаваме.
>>>         >>     > >         >     Аз лично допринасям с какво мога,
>>>         >> но
>>>         ако виждам че
>>>         >>     > >         останалите
>>>         >>     > >         >     отлагат някакви (дори дребни)
>>>         >> задачи,
>>>         започвам
>>>         >>     да се
>>>         >>     > >         демотивирам.
>>>         >>     > >         >     Не казвам че не мога да свърша
>>>         >> всички
>>>         неща от тези
>>>         >>     > >         >които
>>>         >>     > >         ми се
>>>         >>     > >         >     иска сам, но смятам че както в
>>>         >> един
>>>         опън сорс
>>>         >> проект
>>>         >>     > >         >е
>>>         >>     > >         хубаво да
>>>         >>     > >         >     има намесени няколко човека, така
>>>         >> и в
>>>         нашия формат
>>>         >>     > >         >на
>>>         >>     > >         хакерспейс е
>>>         >>     > >         >     по-добре да хванем с някого и да
>>>         свършим дадена
>>>         >>     > >         >задача,
>>>         >>     > >         ако ще и
>>>         >>     > >         >     той само да стои да гледа и да
>>>         >> дава акъл. > >         >     Знаете какво се случи с
>>>         >> Хакафе, дори
>>>         и поради
>>>         >>     > >         по-различни причини.
>>>         >>     > >         >     Не ми се иска да се случи същото и
>>>         >> с
>>>         инит лаб.
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >     On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 4:32 PM
>>>         >> Mario
>>>         Mishev
>>>         >>     > >         <mario at ludost.net
>>>         > <mario at ludost.net>> <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net> <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>>
>>>         >>     <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net> <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net> <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >     <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         >>     <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net> <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>>
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net> <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         >>     <mailto:mario at ludost.net
>>>         > <mario at ludost.net>> <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>>>>> > >         >wrote:
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >         Лично аз много бих искал
>>>         >> срещата
>>>         да се
>>>         >>     проведе с
>>>         >>     > >         всички на едно
>>>         >>     > >         >  физическо място, но да видим как ще
>>>         отговорят
>>>         >>     > >         >другите.
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >         On 07/23/2018 04:30 PM, Vasil
>>>         Kolev wrote:
>>>         >>     > >         >         > ОК ли сме с remote
>>>         >> присъствие?
>>>         На 4/5.08 е
>>>         >>     > >         варнаConf и не
>>>         >>     > >         >         съм сигурен
>>>         >>     > >         >         > още, но най-вероятно ще ходя.
>>>         >>     > >         >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >         > Иначе, да. Проблемът го има,
>>>         >> аз
>>>         съм също
>>>         >> така
>>>         >>     > >         >част
>>>         >>     > >         от него -
>>>         >>     > >         >         около
>>>         >>     > >         >         > детето и работата не ми
>>>         >> остава
>>>         кога да се
>>>         >>     > >         занимавам с лаба,
>>>         >>     > >         >         и като цяло
>>>         >>     > >         >         > почти всичките си лични
>>>         >> проекти
>>>         съм ги
>>>         >>     отебал и
>>>         >>     > >         >не се очертава скорошна
>>>         >>     > >         >         > промяна, за съжаление.
>>>         >>     > >         >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >         > По подобни причини и
>>>         дискусията, с която се
>>>         >>     > >         >почна
>>>         >>     > >         в #initlab
>>>         >>     > >         >         не ми се
>>>         >>     > >         >         > виждаше смислена и излязох
>>>         >> от
>>>         нея, за мен си
>>>         >>     > >         >беше
>>>         >>     > >         гигантска
>>>         >>     > >         >         загуба на
>>>         >>     > >         >         > време. Може би и моето
>>>         >> виждане
>>>         за лаба
>>>         >>     почва да
>>>         >>     > >         >се
>>>         >>     > >         разминава
>>>         >>     > >         >         с това на
>>>         >>     > >         >         > останалите, та нека да се
>>>         >> видим
>>>         и ако
>>>         >> трябва,
>>>         >>     > >         >да
>>>         >>     > >         свикаме
>>>         >>     > >         >         едно общо
>>>         >>     > >         >         > събрание.
>>>         >>     > >         >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >         > On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 16:22:19
>>>         >> +0300 > >         >         > Mario Mishev
>>>         >> <mario at ludost.net
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         >>     <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net> <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>>
>>>         >>     > >         <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net> <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>>>
>>>         >>     <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net> <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net> <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>>
>>>         >>     > >         <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net> <mailto:mario at ludost.net <mario at ludost.net>
>>>         <mailto:mario at ludost.net> <mario at ludost.net>>>>>
>>>         >>     wrote:
>>>         >>     > >         >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> След интензивна дискусия в
>>>         #initlab,
>>>         >>     искам да
>>>         >>     > >         повдигна
>>>         >>     > >         >         въпроса какво
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> правим с/в ГС Init Lab.
>>>         >>     > >         >         >>
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> Ясно е че в последно време
>>>         никой нищо не
>>>         >>     > >         >прави
>>>         >>     > >         в/за лаба и
>>>         >>     > >         >         нещата са
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> на автопилот. След като
>>>         >> Владо
>>>         започна в
>>>         >>     > >         >Деврикс и предупреди че ще е
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> зает с работа, още
>>>         >> по-малко
>>>         има шанс да се
>>>         >>     > >         случват неща.
>>>         >>     > >         >         >>
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> Моля това писмо да не бъде
>>>         четено като
>>>         >>     > >         >критика
>>>         >>     > >         срещу който
>>>         >>     > >         >         и да било
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> индивидуално, целата му е
>>>         >> да
>>>         се заформи
>>>         >>     > >         >дискусия
>>>         >>     > >         около
>>>         >>     > >         >         съдбата на
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> Лаба и ние като негови
>>>         >> членове и най-активни
>>>         >>     > >         contributors.
>>>         >>     > >         >         >>
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> Предложението ми е да се
>>>         съберем и обсъдим
>>>         >>     > >         сериозно какво,
>>>         >>     > >         >         как и кога
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> можем да направим по
>>>         >> въпроса с цел > >         >продължаване и
>>>         >>     > >         най-важното
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> развиване на ГС init Lab.
>>>         >>     > >         >         >>
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> По мои виждания проблема е
>>>         >> поне двустранен -
>>>         >>     > >         нямаме голяма
>>>         >>     > >         >         членска
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> маса, а текущата е заета с
>>>         лични неща и
>>>         >>     > >         >съответно има дефицит на
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> време/желание за занимание
>>>         >> с
>>>         дори текущите
>>>         >>     > >         >issue-та свързани с Лаба.
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> Това се отнася и до мен
>>>         >> самия
>>>         - аз може
>>>         >> и да
>>>         >>     > >         >съм
>>>         >>     > >         физически
>>>         >>     > >         >         там, но не
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> се занимавам с Лабови дела,
>>>         >> а
>>>         лични
>>>         >>     > >         >(най-често
>>>         >>     > >         играене на
>>>         >>     > >         >         игри).
>>>         >>     > >         >         >>
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> Всякаква форма на критика
>>>         >> се
>>>         приема спрямо
>>>         >>     > >         >това мое предложение, и за
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> да съм по-конкретен в
>>>         >> искането
>>>         си, моля
>>>         >>     > >         >изберете
>>>         >>     > >         си ден от
>>>         >>     > >         >  doodle-а,
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> в който да се съберем.
>>>         >>     > >         >         >>
>>>         >>     > >         >         >>
>>>         https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf
>>>         <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf> <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf>
>>>         >>     <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf
>>>         <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf> <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf>>
>>>         >>     > >  <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf
>>>         <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf> <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf>
>>>         >>     <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf
>>>         <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf> <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>          <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf
>>>         <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf> <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf>
>>>         >>     <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf
>>>         <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf> <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf>>
>>>         >>     > >  <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf
>>>         <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf> <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf>
>>>         >>     <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf
>>>         <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf> <https://doodle.com/poll/a7wrp4i6aym4m8mf>>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >         >>
>>>         >>     > >         >         >>
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> Поздрави,
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> Марио
>>>         >>     > >         >         >>
>>>         >>     > >         >         >>
>>>         >>     _______________________________________________
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> Us mailing list
>>>         >>     > >         >         >> Us at initlab.org
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         >>     <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>>
>>>         >>     > >         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         >>     <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >         >>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >> http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>          <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>      <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>          <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >         >
>>>         >>     _______________________________________________
>>>         >>     > >         >         > Us mailing list
>>>         >>     > >         >         > Us at initlab.org
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         >>     <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>>
>>>         >>     > >         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         >>     <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >         >
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >> http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>          <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>      <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>          <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>         >>     > >         >         Us mailing list
>>>         >>     > >         > Us at initlab.org
>>>         >> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         >>     <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>>
>>>         >>     > >         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         >>     <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>          <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>      <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>          <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>         >>     > >         >     Us mailing list
>>>         >>     > >         > Us at initlab.org
>>>         >> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         >>     <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>>
>>>         >>     > >         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         >>     <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>          <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>      <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>          <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         >>     > >         > Us mailing list
>>>         >>     > >         > Us at initlab.org
>>>         >> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         >>     <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>>
>>>         >>     > >         >
>>>         http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>          <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >>     > >  _______________________________________________
>>>         >>     > >         Us mailing list
>>>         >>     > > Us at initlab.org <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         >>     <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >> http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>          <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >>     > >  _______________________________________________
>>>         >>     > >     Us mailing list
>>>         >>     > > Us at initlab.org <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         >>     <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >> http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>          <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >>     > > _______________________________________________
>>>         >>     > > Us mailing list
>>>         >>     > > Us at initlab.org <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         >>     > >
>>>         >> http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>     >
>>>         >>     > _______________________________________________
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>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         >>     >
>>>         >> http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>
>>>         >>
>>>         >>     _______________________________________________
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>>>         <mailto:Us at initlab.org <Us at initlab.org> <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>>
>>>         >> http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >>     <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>>
>>>         >>
>>>         >>
>>>         >>
>>>         >>
>>>         >> _______________________________________________
>>>         >> Us mailing list
>>>         >> Us at initlab.org <mailto:Us at initlab.org> <Us at initlab.org>
>>>         >> http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>         >
>>>         > _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
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>>>         http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
>>>         <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us> <http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us>
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
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>>>     http://lists.ludost.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/us
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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